Stop lying, Toyota

"ImmoralMinority" (araimondo) 09/20/2018 at 20:31 • Filed to: None

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Rebadged Subarus and BMWs are not iconic Toyotas, no matter how much nostalgia you invoke. I hate this.

dogisbadob > ImmoralMinority 09/20/2018 at 20:51

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THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yup, Toyota is degrading themselves by selling inferior cars under their name. They need to remember what makes Toyota good in the first place.

They are trying to Make Toyota Great Again by taking away the things that made Toyota great :/

The Mazda 2 Yaris sedan is too rusty. They should instead bring over the Vios, or the JDM Corolla (which is smaller than the US Corolla). You know, a REAL TOYOTA

Subaru is inferior to Toyota as well. They should’ve had Toyota do the engineering on it. And why no sunroof? An d a Subaru with no AWD? dafuq?

The Corolla hatchback needs a sunroof, too. By far the biggest demerit against it.

Toyota should’ve designed the Supra, too. I know they’re making the excuse about BMW having an I6, but there is no reason Toyota can’t make a new one. They do have more resources than BMW has, too.

Shit, Subaru and Mazda and BMW should be rebadging Toyotas, not the other way around!

And if Toyota dares rebadge the Miata RF as a Sunchaser, I hope you sue them lol (sorry, I had to)

MarquetteLa > dogisbadob 09/20/2018 at 21:01

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You do know that there are a bunch of non-BRZ 2WD Subarus, right?

Spanfeller is a twat > ImmoralMinority 09/20/2018 at 21:09

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Toyota also uses BMW Diesels iirc

I don’t understand what the issue is, we haven’t seen so much Japanese cooperiation with the Germans in decades... oh wait. 

wafflesnfalafel > ImmoralMinority 09/20/2018 at 21:10

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Would you like a nice plug in Prius, Rav4 or a Tundra ?

Sorry... the ROI on fun cars is in the toilet... Protest and buy a BRzed or a Z4 - both are pretty good cars I hear.  

LongbowMkII > MarquetteLa 09/20/2018 at 21:16

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There were. 99% of surviving 2WD subies would be classics.

dogisbadob > MarquetteLa 09/20/2018 at 21:22

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Yeah, I know. I was just trying to be funny there :p

I do wish Subaru would bring over the 1.6L FWD Impreza. The better mileage would help a lot.

But regarding the BRZ, they should make a BRZ STI and a ( GT) 86 All-Trac. Something to differentiate the two!

dogisbadob > Spanfeller is a twat 09/20/2018 at 21:36

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Ford used BMW diesels at one point too :p

No really though, the issue is that Toyota makes the best cars. Subaru, Mazda, and BMW don’t.

They should let Toyota do all the engineering. Subaru and BMW’s  contributions should be limited to the badging, and of course some money towards the development costs.

not for canada - australian in disguise > Spanfeller is a twat 09/20/2018 at 21:40

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Spanfeller is a twat > dogisbadob 09/20/2018 at 21:40

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I don’t know man, to me the ones that seems to be getting cold feet are Toyota.

Perhaps, and this is JUST a theory, we hold Toyota in higher regard than they deserve? 

Nauraushaun > ImmoralMinority 09/20/2018 at 21:49

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I’d love a new MR2. But not if it looks like that.

But it fucking won’t because that design is not mid-engined. Who the fuck does these renders.

Remember: legacy/heritage/whatever is all bullshit .

Nauraushaun > dogisbadob 09/20/2018 at 21:51

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There’s an argument about the sports cars. Developing their own bespoke sports car+drivetrain raises costs. And it’s a dying niche, people want SUVs.

If tapping BMW/Mazda/whatever gives us a cool mid-engined runabout that we otherwise wouldn’t have gotten, and it’s a good car, I’m sort of ok with it.

Of course the whole point of the MR2 was that it used existing engines and components. It was a bit of a parts bin special, but that’s fine. It worked, it was cheap.

dogisbadob > Nauraushaun 09/20/2018 at 21:57

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BMW/Mazda/etc contributions should be limited to the funding and the badges stuck on the car.

They can let Toyota do the actual engineering with the aforementioned funding contribution.

AestheticsInMotion > dogisbadob 09/20/2018 at 22:01

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Okay, I’ll bite.

When was the last time Toyota made a sporty car that was fun to drive?

Mazda has the Miata—which needs no introduction— and the 3 which is fun for it’s class . It’s been a little while since the speed3/6, but those were batshit crazy in the best way.

I think BMW is a shell of it’s former self, but no one walks away from an M2 or base model 2 series unhappy. They’re both absolute blasts to drive. The other M cars are enjoyable too, despite feeling a bit less “special” than previous gens. Hell, the i3 is a fun experience, at a reasonable cost.

Subaru has been making fun vehicles consistently for decades. The BRZ is just the most recent. Lightweight, RWD, manual. Even the people who think it needs a power boost (I’m one of them) don’t bash the BRZ as enenjoyable. It’s an absolute blast to wring out.

And then... There’s Toyota. Let’s see, what’s the last sporty car Toyota made?

The S cion TC? Ha.

That stripped down manual Yaris from a decade ago, that Toyota probably sold about 5 of? I’ve driven one at an HPDE and it was enjoyable, but nothing like any of the above options.

The last gen Celica? Lol.

The last generation MR2? People seem to be pretty devided on these , at the very least they’re certainly not in the same performance ballpark as the prior gen.

So... Do we have to go back to the last Supra? That is a loooooong time. However you look at it, Toyota certainly made great cars in the past, but their offerings for the last decade (or more) have been quite lackluster. Even in the mainstream fields, despite stellar sales they haven’t really been the best in class for quite a while.

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > ImmoralMinority 09/20/2018 at 22:03

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I still remember when the LFA just came out and seeing all the cool tech it had l ike the bespoke high r eving engine, unique carbon fiber construction, focus on driving experience. I remember thinking then that all of this crazy r +d is going to make a killer S upra.

But...

things turned out differently.

InFierority Complex > Nauraushaun 09/20/2018 at 22:05

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I don’t think the article is saying that render would be a new MR2. Looks like the artist was attempting to put Toyota’s newer design language onto the S-FR concept from several years back, which would have been a cheaper and smaller 86.

InFierority Complex > Nauraushaun 09/20/2018 at 22:05

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D ouble post. Sorry.

DipodomysDeserti > dogisbadob 09/20/2018 at 22:08

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As someone who has owned multiple Subarus and BMW’s, there’s no way in hell I’d ever buy a Toyota car  rebadged as a Subaru or BMW. There’s a reason Toyota is rebadging other brands when it comes to making fun cars.

Chuckles > ImmoralMinority 09/20/2018 at 22:16

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That car in the picture looks pretty nice to me. Does it really matter what they call it? Calling a new car an “MR2" or "Celica" doesn’t diminish what the old ones were. If Mazda decides to make a crossover but call it a Miata, that has zero impact on the car sitting in my garage right now.

Nauraushaun > InFierority Complex 09/20/2018 at 22:19

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the Celica or MR2 (speculatively rendered above). 

I took that to mean the MR2 is rendered above. I think you’re right, they meant it’s either.

dogisbadob > AestheticsInMotion 09/20/2018 at 22:51

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While the fun sporty offerings are thinner than before, Toyota is hardly the only one, as you pointed out. Well, at least they still that stripped Yaris hatchback :o)
(the Yaris hatchback is still a real Toyota; only the sedan gets the Mazda rust)

My biggest hate on Mazda is the rust. They seem to rust so bad and so quickly! If they used galvanized steel, maybe it would be better. Time will tell how well they can do without Ford.

Mazda had Ford’s help and Ford’s money when the MS3/6 were out (and of course, Mazda’s platforms were used on various Fords and Volvos).

And back then 10 years ago, Toyota had more than just the MR2 and TC. They had the 2ZZ Corolla/Matrix/Vibe (which was also used in the Elise/Exige). They also make the supercharged 2GR for Lotus in the Evora.

They even offered a TRD supercharger for the 1ZZ 03-08 Corolla/Matrix/ Vibe.

Plenty of wasted potential. Toyota should’ve expanded the 2ZZ use and also the V6 supercharger usage. Getting Toyota back to the fun stuff isn’t difficult, and DEFINITELY doesn’t require sacrificing Toyota’s famous reliability and quality.

Subaru has had head gasket issues with most of their engines up until just a few years ago. An d with the mandatory AWD (aside from the BRZ) , it hurts fuel economy as well. After killing off the Justy in the early 90s, it took them 20 years to make another car that could do 30 mpg. They need to make their AWD systems work in FWD mode by default, then transfer power to the rear wheels as needed. So the penalty is only a half mpg, if that.

And an out-of-warranty BMW is no fun, either.

dogisbadob > Nauraushaun 09/20/2018 at 23:30

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MF2 :p

duurtlang > dogisbadob 09/21/2018 at 01:22

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Toyota doesn’t make ‘the best cars’. They make the most reliable cars. For something to be ‘the best’ it needs more than just reliability . If you were to ignore reliability, most Toyotas wouldn't even be competitive.

MarquetteLa > LongbowMkII 09/21/2018 at 01:36

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You can still buy a new FWD Impreza in Japan :)

bhtooefr > Spanfeller is a twat 09/21/2018 at 06:01

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Not for long they won’t.

(They’re replacing all the diesels in cars with hybrids.)

Censored > ImmoralMinority 09/21/2018 at 09:47

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I was planning on writing a post just like this in disgust, however you beat me to the punch. I posted this comment on another topic, but it applies here.

“ Correct me if I’m wrong, and I’ll admit that I’m not a toyota, supra or bmw fanboy. In fact, I dislike 2 of the 3.

This car can not and will not prove that toyota can still build a sports car. This car merely proves that toyota is skilled in buying a bmw and throwing some new skin on it.

I know that this is a badge engineering debate, but this seems blatantly silly to praise toyota for something that they didn’t build. In my opinion, this car is no more built my toyota than my truck is built by me cause I threw new shocks, struts and an intake on it.”

Toyota, BUILD YOUR OWN CAR! This is just a lazy grab at cash playing on the emotions of the 35-45ish year olds that now have money and lusted after the 80's and 90's supras.

dogisbadob > MarquetteLa 09/21/2018 at 10:23

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Subaru needs to sell that FWD Impreza over here. The 1.6 FWD would get much better mpg and the lower price is nice, too.

ihm96 > Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast 09/21/2018 at 11:03

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Lol instead you just got a BMW

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > ImmoralMinority 09/21/2018 at 11:35

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A colab with another manufacturer would probably be necessary. Did someone say Honda S660?

dogisbadob > Censored 09/21/2018 at 20:09

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+1